My birds are rattlesnakes

[kstatekool]

I posted on the intro page that 2 pairs of lovebirds have been kinda dumped on me. They are breeding pairs. I am not really into breeding at this time and have hoped to have them be lovey with me. NOT!!!!! The males are actually okay...they nip very very lightly, no pain involved, just a little warning. The females are like freaking little rattlesnakes!!!!!!!!!!!!! One female RUNS to attack me or anyone else who gets to close to the cage. If I stand there too long, she gets angry and tries to tip over the food dish, and bangs it around agrily while screeching loudly at me, the poor little male sits in the back like "I told you not to make her mad!". The other female nips HARD, but, I can handle her and get her to step up once I get her out of the cage. It's when I reach in to get her that gets me pretty good, she stretches her beak open real wide like "Listen HAG"!!!!! I know this is probably completely normal, but it seems like they poop on me ALOT when I get them out......I often wonder if it's personal.......... :( :(

Since they have been breeders, am I just hoping for something that can never be????? I am giving serious thought to selling them.......even caring for them is very difficult, and can be painful if I am not careful.

[BarbieH]

I feel your pain. I was once the owner of a strange little bird who seemed not only unfriendly, but downright hostile. We adopted her from the Humane Society and the first time she came out of the cage, she clamped onto my finger with a ferocity that astonished me. :eek:

Granted, it wasn't four birds at once. But it was something I was totally unprepared for, and I had doubts about whether or not we should keep her. Now I have so many things to share with you, I hope you will forgive the long post. :)

What I really needed was more information and an understanding of the nature of lovebirds. The first thing I had to realize is that there are no domesticated birds. They all remain wild, and the less interaction they have with humans, the wilder they get.

All the behavior you described is a part of the birds' wild nature. Hens can be fierce because they feel the need to protect themselves; some seem more territorial than others. In a new home they become even more protective until they learn to trust you. Try to think of it as Wild Kingdom in your very own home. :)

The good news is that the situation can get better. Even though the birds were dumped on you, they can accept you, and that's what you want: to be one of their flock. If you don't want this (and I realize not every human wants to belong to a flock of birds), then it's probably best if you do give them up. It's not a judgment but a fact.

Lovebird 101
The first thing to do is to build a trust foundation between yourself and the birds. They need to know that you will feed and care for them, change their water, clean their tray liners, and you won't hurt them.

Talk to them in a quiet, upbeat voice. It may sound like babytalk, but birds are sound-sensitive. If you hear them making calls, make calls back. (That one is my personal favorite. :) )

Eat some meals or snacks near their cages. They are social eaters. They may not eat at the same time you do right away, but once they start joining you in a snack, you can mark that down as progress!

Again, this is lovebird 101. Once you get them to stop looking at you like you are a potential predator, we can get more advanced.

Self Protection
Believe it or not, you don't have to get bit. In fact, you want to avoid getting bit so it doesn't become a habit for the birds. Here are a few tips based on what I would do in your situation, and what I have already done:

* Don't try to handle the birds right now, especially the hens. You are a giant potential predator and lovebirds don't know how small they are. They will attack.

* Don't force them out of the cages unless it is absolutely necessary, for example, if a bird is sick. It needs to become a place where they feel safe.

* When changing food and water dishes, do distract the hens to another part of the cage while you replace the dishes. (Does the cage have dish windows?) Nippy hens are easy to manipulate; use one hand to distract her to the far upper corner, and the other hand to replace the dish.

* If these cages have nestboxes, remove them! Nestboxes make nesty hens worse. :omg:

Good luck! :) Please let us know what your decision was about the birds.

Added: About the pooping; it's not personal. :lol Any bird will prefer to poop outside of its nest if possible, and your birds view their cages as their nests. Also, just because you have two pairs doesn't mean you are committed to the chicks. Newly laid eggs can be boiled and returned to the nest and you haven't killed anything; you just stop it from developing.

[kstatekool]

Barbie......that's the best advice and INFORMATION I have gotten yet. Thanks so much!!!!!!

A little more background, I have a white-face grey male cockatiel. He is sooooooo sweet and loving. His favorite place is nuzzled in my hair and neck giving me little kisses :p . I was hoping for something similar with the lovebirds.

With the calmer pair, I can open the cage door, and when the hen finally steps out onto the door, she will "step-up" for me. I can handle her from there. Then at some point, usually when I try scritching her neck/head she bites in a pushing motion like "GET AWAY" :evil: . Sooooo.......I take it she does not like scritching...or I am scritching wrong.

Thanks so much again!!!!!!!!!

[BarbieH]

Glad to help. :) I just remember how it was with Gracie at first. We are completely bonded now (and she has a mate and chicks), though I still can't touch her with my hands. Linda and Robin here were a great help in those early days.

Aha, you have another bird! This can definitely work in your favor. Let the lovebirds see you handling your tiel, so they can see how much the tiel trusts you. They will be influenced. But don't let the lovies out with the tiel. They could well attack him, too.

Lovie personalities are so distinct; there are clowns, pests, snugglers, skittish ones, and attack birds. They are like perpetual toddlers, always demanding attention. Hookbilled toddlers! :lol

TTYL,

[LoveBird]

Since you got two Love Birds they bond with eachother. If you had got only one, it would have bonded with you. Since you got two they get nippy.
Taylor

[Mummieeva]

Actually Taylor even a pair can bond to you. Many here have a pair and they are bonded to human and feathered alike.



Steph

[kimsbirds]

Please tell that to my single birds, Taylor !!! :rofl:
I've got 4 single birds here, handled daily, and they have no interest in bonding with me or any other human in my home .

Additionally, I've got 3 or 4 pairs who've never been officially handled, that have bonded beautifully to me in their own way. I can touch, skritch and feed the males and females, but I have to respect that when they fly/walk away, they're done with me.

[sdgilley]

Lovebirds are individuals! I have three distinctly different birds. Two are bonded males, one is a BITER who LOVES ME and loves his mate. The other male is timid and loves any other bird around, especially my female he's not caged with! :rofl: The third bird is caged alone and SHE is my lovable, cuddly baby. She enjoys the boys and likes to get my timid birdy to feed her. She runs all and any one off when she feels like it, and tells me what to do and how to do it. If she were caged with a mate, I have no doubt she'd still call all the shots, but think she'd still be MY baby. Her favorite place is in my shirt sleeve.

Don't be discouraged by your birds when they are difficult. Even the tough as nails birds will love you. They might just love you differently, that's all. Learn to communicate with them on their level, not yours, and you'll be more satisfied. The trick is they are not dogs or cats or even like each other!!! :rofl:

[kstatekool]

I appreciate all the info and honesty fellow birders!!!! It's also helpful for the info regarding your interaction with your lovebirds.

Sounds like to me that lovebirds are a bit different from other birds. My cockatiel is sooooooooooo different, my sweet cockatiel would never dream of biting me, he just wants to snuggle and love. Lovebirds on the other hand seem to keep everything on THEIR terms. Forgive me for all the dumb questions, but if I can get to where I understand all this, I will be a better birdie mom. I have been hoping to get my lovebirds to be like my little buddies........but it seems like I probably shouldn't hope for that.

My next question is this.......again forgive me if I make ya'all mad at this one. But from personal experience with these lovebirds, everything is on their terms, and most of the time they are downright nasty. From what I am reading here, some of ya'alls lovebirds are difficult as well. My actual question is this.....if a bird is like this, and bites you all the time, and is so tempermental, why do ya'all keep lovebirds??? What's the attraction and appeal? :confused:

Again, is this makes ya'all mad, please forgive the questions.

[BarbieH]

Hi; :)

That didn't make me mad. And you are correct, with many lovebirds, it all has to be on their terms. We aren't owners, we are slaves!

My lovies don't bite me all the time. There are ways to modify their behaviors, but it requires a bit of finesse. You need to make a lovebird think that it wants to do it. Manipulation is a very powerful tool for dealing with aggressive lovebirds.

And, not all lovebirds are aggressive and territorial, even among the hens. They are mostly all very demanding, though. :) That can be endearing because they are so small!

I think a lot of the behaviors you are seeing with your birds, has to do with them being in a relatively new situation, new environment, new people (or person). They are frightened, but they are showing it with aggression instead of cowering. They were breeders and they have not been socialized at all, so this is completely normal behavior for them.

Working with a relatively wild lovebird and seeing progress -- signs of trust, signs of acceptance -- is extremely rewarding. There are ways to deprogram the birds' biting responses, that we can get into later. You know that harridan I mentioned in my first reply to you? Gracie is very sweet to me now, but it has been about three years, maybe more, since she first came to us. It's the joy of a successful rescue. Your birds weren't rescue animals per se, but they weren't pets either.

I also had to make some concessions with Miz Grace. She does not trust hands or fingers. I don't know why; don't know her history. But I respect her needs, like any parrot. I respect her as an individual. (I respect her beak. :omg: ) I do not try to touch her with my hands, and we get along just fine. My other seven birds have various degrees of touchability. Sam, my day-1 handfed from George and Gracie (long story), is very loving, snuggly, jumpy, funny, and absolutely a tyrant over my heart. :)

I hope this gives you some insight on why we do it, or at least, why I do it. The size of these birds' personalities is amazing.

Best wishes,

[jknezek]

I can answer this one for myself since I have 3 wild lovebirds, one of which won't bite but hates to be handled and 2 that prefer the taste of blood to their food. I keep them because they are hilarious. They play and chirp and brighten up my life even though I can't pet them or pick them up and play with them. They do just fine as friends together and there is no end to the entertainment and joy they bring to my apartment. But then again, I also have an eclectus who is the sweetest little green guy around. He plays with me and keeps me occupied and we both stare in fascination at the three little clowns across the way.

Jeremy
Kiwi -- Male Eclectus (Those three little puff-balls are nuts. Don't they know he comes with treats in his fingers???)
Garfield -- Black Masked LB (I hate hands, I hate hands, I hate hands, but I've never figured out how to bite)
Odie -- Peach Faced LB (mmm hands.... lunch.)
Merry -- Peach Faced LB (bring those hands over here. clean my cage? I'm going to drink your blood)

[Buy A Paper Doll]

Lovebirds on the other hand seem to keep everything on THEIR terms.
Yep, that's exactly right! :)


From what I am reading here, some of y'alls lovebirds are difficult as well. My actual question is this.....if a bird is like this, and bites you all the time, and is so tempermental, why do y'all keep lovebirds??? What's the attraction and appeal?
Well.... :lol My vet says that lovebirds are "full of pi** and vinegar." Yes, they bite. My darling Milo just spent the evening charging my husband and biting him on the chin. :roll: Why do I keep them? Because they are so darned cute, even when they're mad! Mine give kisses and they want to be with me as much as I want to be with them. They are sooo entertaining, I can spend hours playing with them and watching them interact with each other.

Your question didn't make me mad at all. I'm glad you asked. :)

[kstatekool]

Jennifer, what are the colors of the Lovies in your pic? One of my pairs is almost identical to that!!

Thanks everyone for all the info, and for all the insight into your "lovie relationships"!!

[Buy A Paper Doll]

Milo is a whiteface violet with 1 dark factor and Melody is a blue series Australian cinnamon with 1 dark factor. The photo in my avatar shows a very young Melody before her orangy band grew in.

Taking advantage of the question to post more recent photos (http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2124137361).

[sdgilley]

What's the appeal? Well, you can't pet fish, but lots of people have fish. Having birds, in my opinion, is way more than handling birds. Peter is my dedicated biter. He'll draw blood when he bites. BUT I fell in love with him because he'll do anything for attention. He started out by hanging upside down for me. Later he learned to alley-oop around the perches for my entertainment. How many animals make it their goal to have you laugh and talk to them? That's the appeal from a biter-bird home.

Sometimes folks that have biter-birds read about the cuddly birds on the forum and feel quite left out. I understand that! BUT, we have some very lovable biter birds here, too! I have three birds now, one bites, one is wild, and the third is quite tame. I have different relationships with the different lovies. I have the biter out to play every day, but I don't offer him my hand! You learn to relate to the biters and the wild ones differently. I get so much out of it!

Good luck!!!

[Janie]

Here I sit with a single little male lovie and he does not bite. Well, I sure clarify that....he does not bite ME. He will take a good nip at my son (no blood yet) if my son comes after him when he's on me. If he's on top of his cage or inside his cage, he willingly goes to my son. *I* am my birds mate and while he is very friendly to the family, he does not like to be taken off me.

I am adding two more soon. Both males and brothers about 9 weeks old. My HOPE is that they will love each other and love me, too, but I know that I'll have to wait and see about that and also how they feel about hands and biting. My single lovie allows me to do anything to him but I know that isn't typical and adding two more will be a whole new experience. As Jeremy mentioned, watching them play together will be so much fun and something I'm really looking forward to.

I hope yours do settle down but if they don't, maybe you can just enjoy watching them have a good time together. :)