I've been burned, but am I being unfair about female Lovebirds?

[kk and tango]

Hi everyone! I've gotten such fabulous advice over the years from all of you, including during the loss of my darling fid Tango that I am back with a question regarding your experiences with female lovebirds. As I stated in my title, I've had a bad experience and wanted to get some perspective. I didn't know whom else to turn to.

My boyfriend Dave and I recently found out that our favorite bird oasis (I can't call it a store, it's too fabulous with a house and garden turned into a store with a bird sanctuary housed in the back) has hand-fed peach faced lovebird babies. We fell in love with a little gray one (a really pretty mutation) and arranged to have it sex tested since we wanted a boy. The breeder singled this bird out as having a particularly nice personality, and it does have a great personality and that special "spark".

The results came back, and it is a girl. :confused: When I was a kid and Tango was two, my sister got a lovebird. It was so sweet and cuddly, we named it Sweety. She bonded to the whole family and was a great bird. Unfortunately, as soon as she reached sexual maturity, her hormones went crazy. She started biting hard enough to draw blood, laying eggs and eventually we couldn't get her to come out of her cage at all. We had a very difficult time handling her, and even changing things out in her cage became difficult. We tried working with her and reading books, but nothing seemed to help.

My family is very committed to keeping pets--we don't believe in getting an animal unless you are committed to its care and well-being for the rest of its life. We soldiered on with Sweety for several years, but it didn't seem fair: we could no longer handle her and confining her to a life of sitting in her cage didn't seem right. It was obvious that she wanted to be a mom and not a pet.

We ended up rehoming her with Menagerie, the place I mentioned above. It's where we buy our bird food, board our fids and are currently looking at babies. I vowed I would never look at a female again, but I really like this bird and I am wondering if my experience may have been on the extreme.

The bird we are looking at is relatively shy and is the runt of the litter. I've read elsewhere that the runts often make more docile and better pets (Tango was a runt, too so I will believe it! :rofl:) Her behavior so far doesn't seem aggressive, which is in contrast to what I remember with Sweety, who was a very outgoing and abnormally outgoing bird.

I've also learned that taking females off of a seed diet and not giving them millet can influence their aggressiveness. I didn't know that at the time with Sweety (though she got a variety of other fresh foods, she did not eat pellets).

Am I being too paranoid and should I pass? Or am I being too hasty in potentially passing up a bird that could make a great addition to our family? We already have a female cockatiel, who does love to climb in boxes and dark spaces and spends a great deal of time masturbating on her playground, but Tiki has never been aggressive and isn't a problem. We do notice the behavior differences, though in terms of her being a hen and less friendly compared to male cockatiels.

Any advice? I'm interested in everyone's experiences with females. FYI my boyfriend and I both work from home and spend all day with our birds. They are housed in separate rooms but are often out or on the shoulder at the same time. Tango was super affectionate and loved to snuggle up in my boyfriend's hand and sleep on his neck while he played xbox or worked on the computer. My boyfriend really misses the companionship Tango provided even though he loves his cockatiel.

[Pips mom]

Well, I can't comment on female lovies, but I do have a female tiel and she's as sweet as can be! In fact from what I have heard, with cockatiels, the females tend to be friendlier.....more cuddly and sweet. Both my male and female though are pretty equal when it comes to that, although the male is a little more social and outgoing.
I know a woman.....where we got Ivy from, and she had two female lovies. While we were there, they were a bit skiddish at first, but after a few minutes they were both on me and stayed there riding around on me for some time! They were very sweet and well behaved! I said to her.....why isn't Pip this good?? lol and Pip is a boy....at least we think! but her females were really sweet and adorable and were even out in the bird room with her other birds and seemed to get along well with all of them.
I think it's true that you just never know what you're going to get when you get any bird! They all are so unique in their own way. I'm sure that probably you stand some kind of chance of getting a great bird with the female lovie.....but then it's always the chance you take.....you could end up with a male who's meaner than a female! I think if it were me though, I would probably wait and get the male I wanted. From everything I hear and have read, I think I would stick with a male lovie.....but then I'm not much of a risk taker either! AND....I didn't want a female tiel either! but I ended up with one when I was told she was a male! and now I am so glad that I have her!
I guess it's really a decision that only you can make for yourself.....but of course always listen to what others have to say too.....it's always interesting and helpful listening to everyone's experiences before deciding too, but in the end.....it's your choice of what is best for YOU! and what you think is best for the lovie.

[kk and tango]

BTW, here are some pictures...
http://thekklife.vox.com/library/post/little-gray-baby.html

[kk and tango]

Hi Pips Mom! Thanks for the response. It's so true you just never know what you are going to get. We've been so lucky with both Tiki and Tango. Tiki is so funny because she can be so ornery and hiss when she gets mad at things (sometimes even her food) but she is the most gentle creature.

[Flapjack]

I have a female. She bit me the most when she was 4 months old... and that's during the time I was positive she was a BOY!

Jack just turned two and has had 3 clutches of eggs (no mate). I will say that the older she gets, the sweeter she gets!

She loves to roll around in my hand, lie on her back, still bobs her beak in my fingers like a chick eating. Jack loves kisses all over her body. I even left her 3 times this year due to a family situation in Cali. The first time was 2 wks, the second 1 week, and the third time almost a month.
Jack stayed with my brother-in-law the last time I was gone, and although he's great with birds, she didn't like him much, so she really didn't even get out of her cage much.
Even after all that time away, as soon as she saw me, she squealed, and tried to get to me. I reached into her cage and she hopped on and was making kissy noises and mewing with delight. She rubbed all over my face.

There are testy females out there, but even when she's got eggs, I can reach into her cage to get her- that is if I go in the correct door. Out of the 6 doors in her cage, she likes it when I only use one. But through that door, I can do anything in the cage I want- I just cant reach up to the top, so for those things, she has to be out.

Birds are birds, there are great hens, and mean males- it just depends on the bird.

I'd GO FOR IT!!!! What a cutie!

[momo]

I think I have a female lovebird, she is a nightmare, there is no scritches.. there are cheek pats but that's about it.. I have to change her cage in a different room because she will chase after me because I am "touching herself".. alongside with her toys and play pen.. no one can touch her stuff... she will happily play on my lap.. but shoulder time involves LOTS of bites.. lots and LOTS of bites and blood.

but to be honest, I don't have any other way.

I think the birds temperament depends on how they are brought up and the human interactions they have...

but.. I also wouldn't just buy a bird because its super cute hahaha.. looks can be deceiving.. how does it interact with you?

[kk and tango]

so far it seems a little skittish, but it is very calm and gets picked on by the others rather than being the bully...

[maya_exquisite]

The photos are super adorable!! Are all four babies from the same clutch? I wanna grab them all and squeeze the cuteness out of them!! :rotfl

Okay, so my experience with hens - both good and bad.

My very first hen (who flew to my ex) haaaaaaaaaated me and would attack my hand any time I put my hand in the cage. My ex could play with her and cuddle with her and be fine. I think this is because he was always the one to let her out and I'm the one that had to put her back in later. I ended up having to wear thick leather gloves if I wanted to stick my hands in and the ex never helped 'cause he liked playing with them but not really caring for them.

The other hens I had were always "good" but would get a little nippier when they were sitting on eggs, so I usually left them alone during those times.

If you'd like to avoid the "PMS" hens tend to (but not always) get, then I'd wait for a male - but that's just my opinion.

I agree that each bird has it's own personality, regardless of sex. Wouldn't it be nice if that was a definite way we could tell their sex, though?? Nippy and territorial - female; Docile and friendly - male. Easy peasy!! *lol* I WISH!!!

[newloviemom]

Well....I think if you already of pictures of the little sweetie, you are only one step away from bringing her home with you!!:happy:
Cindy

[Mummieeva]

It sounds to me like you want this bird badly. SO I say get her. I have had only 2 tame birds. One was a confirmed hen and the other her offspring I am sure was female also. Baggy did bite and for awhile I was very frustrated. But I learn to read her cues and the biting slowed. Both loved to preen my hair and were great girls.


Steph

[kk and tango]

lol, no they are actually two clutches of lovebirds that happened to be born at the same time. There were four green baby and then the gray and the yellow/gray are siblings.

[maya_exquisite]

Do you know the mutations of the parents of the Slate (what you're calling gray)?

[kk and tango]

i'm not so good with the colors and what they are called, but I could ask next time I'm in. Yellow and gray one has become more yellow, but when she was first born she was half and half...

[Buy A Paper Doll]

I second what Steph said. :)

I had the most wonderful little hen ever, who passed away in September. Melody. As a baby she was sweet as can be, a bit timid. As she grew up, she developed a very strong will and a very hard bite. I had to learn to read her body language, and I had to learn to respect the boundaries that SHE set with me. Still, she just had to be on my person at all times. When I walked into a room, she would immediately come to me - whether I wanted her on me or not!

She was a lot of work. Always busy, always getting into things. And she was so smart. She learned to make "kissy" noises as well as "peekaboo" - and not only that, she knew how to use those skills to get out of trouble by being cute at just the right time.

Yes, she was a lot of work. But she was worth it. So worth it.

[linda040899]

I'm going to add my :2cents: here as a breeder.

I have different kinds of pairs set up. Some are breeders for color mutation. Other breeders are for temperament. I've been lucky and I've had overlaps between the two groups. Babies tend to have temperaments similar to their parents, at least in my own personal experience. Most of my personal pets (Cleo, Violet, Tobi, Flutter, the 2 Creamino preening machines) are all hens. None of them bite; nip yes, bite no. They all happen to be from parents that I breed for color but the temperaments of all the babies is just wonderful.

I would ask about the parents of the lovie you want to add to your flock. In the photos, I can see a Peachie with the youngsters so I assume that's either mom or dad. I don't see an open, threatening beak so that parent bird must not be too upset with what's going on. If that's the case, it's a good thing!

As for Tiels, I'll take a female over a male any day of the week! Females are much quieter and all of mine have been sweet beyond belief! It's not that I haven't had nice male Tiels, either. There's just something about those hens..... :)

[Janie]

You've been given good advice but I'll still add my :2cents:. I was so determined to have males that I did pay for DNAing and turned down an adorable WF Violet (the color I wanted) because the baby turned out to be female. I waited and in the end (3 months later) got two males (one is a WF Violet) and I'm very happy with the mix. Because I already had Oliver and knew he was a male since he'd never laid an egg and was at least 7 or 8, I figured a room full of males might get along better than adding a female to the mix. I'm very happy with my decision BUT, having said that, I have read about some wonderful hens on this forum.

Good luck in your decision and I have to add one more thing..... that baby is ADORABLE!!!!!!!!!! :D If I were to get another lovie (an "if" that won't happen!) that is the color I'd like to have! :)

[LauraO]

Female lovebirds often get a bad rap. Of course, I am lucky in most of my hens are very sweet and have great personalities. I agree with Linda in that their parents were very sweet so they are often sweet.

I have had experience with difficult hens and they can be trying. I guess the only question you really have to answer in considering this baby is will you love and keep her no matter what her personality or how aggressive she gets. If you are not, then don't bring her home, let her get used to you and your family only to be rehomed. This would not be fair to the baby. There is nothing wrong with working toward bringing a bird into your family that everyone believes would be the best fit. Often, these babies are not the cutest or the color you have in mind, but they make great family members.

Good Luck:)

[Bubblelady]

Having had only one male & one hen, I'm not an expert. But my hen has been the love of my life for 14 years! Yes, she bites when I annoy her. So I have just learned not to annoy her :) And when she is not annoyed, she lays on her back in my hand to get her face & beak rubbed, adores skritches, snuggling, being on my person, making me laugh. She is every bit as sweet & cuddly as my male was...& she doesn't insist on feeding me predigested bird seed :omg: She layed one egg in her life--an expensive proposition which luckily she didn't enjoy so didn't repeat!

A true story that is probably appropriate here:
My mother's first born was my brother. A very challenging child.
I am the second born. The perfect child :whistle:
When my mother became pregnant for the third time, she said she wanted a girl because "girls areso much easier than boys".
She got another girl. Who is, in my mother's own words, just as challenging as her boy!

A long winded way of saying, "odds" only apply to groups. When dealing with individuals--birds or people--there's no predicting.

P.S. If you DO get your little hen, you can name her Gee Gee--Gray Girl :happy:

[kk and tango]

Wow! Thank you all for some great advice. Linda, great idea about asking to see the parents. I don't know why that slipped my mind.

This would be a forever home, so that is why we are taking our time thinking this over.

I couldn't help taking pictures and visiting, but I haven't gone so far as to start thinking about names yet.:) I guess I do have some restraint.

It sounds like hens can be a bit more work when you bring the egg laying into consideration, though my little guy was absolutely the most demanding thing ever and we loved him.

[bellarains]

That little one looks like my Slater(yep, she is a girl), and she is the sweetest little hen. I will not say she isn't a bit territorial, she is, and she is supposed to be. She is not however very aggressive, and usually gives me the "OK" to come inside her cage without too much fuss:whistle:

I think what you get with a hen is a little more fiesty, but along with that, you get that spunky little personality which I find just too cute.

I do believe all birds are different,and it has alot to do with the time,love, and attention given them. If your perspective little one seems to accept you now, I don't think that will change. She will just have "her moments":rofl:

[donna1064]

My one and only lovie is a hen and all I can say is I absolutely ADORE her, and could not imagine not having her.

Is she territorial? YES.

Is she nippy and can bite? YES.

Does she shred everything in sight? YES.

BUT....

As long as her boundaries are respected, she is given enough attention and healthy toys to play with that encourage foraging, and interaction with people, she is the sweetest little girl in the world...eventhough she's got alot of spunk, too...and she talks a little too...she loves to sit on my shoulder as I clean house or use the computer, and loves to cuddle at night while I watch TV. At this point I don't know if I would want a male as I don't want to make any comparisons...this little hen has taken hold of my heart and she won't let go, and that's perfectly fine with me!

My :2cents:

[StormyMom]

Gosh ive heard alot of horror stories on female lovies and now im hoping mines a male!! LOL. Im not one to rehome either, so ill deal with hormones if mine does end up a female, but wow. They sure are worse than i thought. Which is funny cuz i used to breed cockatiels, and i cant believe the difference in the females!!

Id say if you really want her go get her. I think like any pet she wont be perfect, but im sure if you guys both respect your boundaries later on down the road it should be fine.

[Kathryn]

Ten lovie hens and seven are delightfully sweet.
The other three are younger and feisty as well as territorial.
Eleven little lovie guys and two are incorrigible and demanding.

All my babies are playful, beak grinders and will siddle up for a snuggle when they are the only bird out for playtime.

Perhaps that is the key...give undivided attention time for each bird.

[kk and tango]

Thanks for all the great advice everyone. We thought long and hard and we decided to take our chances. She came home with us this morning and we are so thrilled about our new addition to the household :rofl:. She is already comfortable in the hand and has been out a few times today with both of us. At one point I think she actually asked to come out, too! She was sitting at the front of the cage cheeping at us and when I reached in to pick her up she didn't struggle at all.

I feel a little guilty since she was taken away from her last friend this morning :(so we made sure to give her extra snuggles.


We'll be doing a lot of reading about training, etc. It's been a very long time since I had to do any training so it's time for a refresher course for sure. I agree that with extra training and boundaries any problems should be mitigated. It helps we are home with our birds all day long and get to spend so much time with them. Thank you to all of you for sharing your experiences!

Now our little girl just needs a name...

[maya_exquisite]

We wanna see lots and lots of pictures!! :) And we definitely love giving name suggestions!! Mine tend to be Japanese or Hawaiian names, though. Hehe.

[J.P.]

Congrats on the new baby!

Where is this place and what is the name? I'm in LA and would love to go visit and it sounds wonderful.

Thanks,
Joann

[Enko_chan]

BTW, here are some pictures...
http://thekklife.vox.com/library/post/little-gray-baby.html

Oh my goodness! She's very similar to a grey runt I loved, but passed over because I only wanted one bird and I'd already fallen for another. The grey baby- almost a grey-khaki color, was very sweet and gentle, fell asleep in my hand! My hub was in love with the little grey- I almost thought he was going to insist on getting them both.

I picked my baby from a similar aviary. Its wonderful to have birds that are well cared-for. Hey... we're not looking at the same birds are we? All she's got left now are the grey and a green...

As for the personality issues- I had two lovebirds growing up, a male and a female, caged separately- and the female was the gentle, friendly one. She went through a nippy stage during the first year, but turned out to be by far the sweeter and more easily handled of the two. I think it really depends on the bird's personality. The male would only let me handle him, and not often. The female loved the whole family.

[kk and tango]

@ J.P. Oh, it is so wonderful and well worth the trip! Eko Chan, they are called Menagerie in Summerland, Ca (which is just south of Santa Barbara). It's well worth your visit since they have a great selection of toys and preprepared food (I have fed my birds their frozen birdie pilaf and the cook-it-yourself mixes for years). They also ship their food and your local pet store can request to carry it. They told me when I lived in LA some LA stores used to carry it but since my parents lived up here I just made personal trips to stock up.

Jayme who runs it has worked at zoos and animal sanctuaries and it is what she went to school for. The great thing about this place is it is truly of the birds and for the birds. It's a cute old style house in this tiny beach community right off the 101 with a bird sanctuary in the back. I love to bring friends here is for the immersive experience of wandering the gardens with all the wild jungle bird noises. It can be overwhelming at times. But the Summerland Cafe down the way has a great breakfast and lunch and there is a coffee shop and antique stores in town, as well as a beautiful public beach.

The first Sunday of every month they do a birdie brunch with birds and owners (the birds need to have had a well check with a vet in the past year). It's intended to socialize birds and bring together the people who love them. The cost is $10 per person and it's "hosted" by Jayme's African Grey. Babu's Bagel Brunch is held from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. the first Sunday of the month at Menagerie, 2430 Lillie Ave., in Summerland. The brunch is free for birds, $10 for their guests.

The newspaper did a really funny write up of it which I will repost part of here:

THEY EAT LIKE BIRDS

7/31/05

By Charlotte Boechler

NEWS-PRESS STAFF WRITER

That's understandable, because the guests of honor at this brunch are winged and feathered

Babu, a Congo African Grey, above, hosts Sunday brunch at Menagerie bird shop in Summerland -- and no, birdseed is not part of the spread. Babu prefers Jack's Famous Bagels. Among the guests: Oscar, a Blue & Gold Macaw, top.

The tables were covered in linen, the wait staff circulated among the guests to ensure that their every need was met and the location offered an exclusive view of the Pacific Ocean.

But this was no dignified Sunday brunch.

That much was clear when you were greeted by the host, who was particular enough to dunk his bagel in water to moisten it but then went ahead and ate it with his foot.

Once a month, Babu, a Congo African Grey parrot, puts out an elegant spread for his feathered friends on the back patio of Menagerie bird shop in Summerland.


The fare on the long buffet table on this morning included cranberry, sesame and egg bagels; four different toppings -- cream cheese, strawberry cream cheese, butter and lox, artfully displayed on individual cutting boards; a platter of fresh pineapple, cantaloupe and watermelon wedges; a bowl of red grapes; and pitchers of agua de sandia (watermelon) and pineapple juice, prepared on-site.

...

You don't have to have a bird to attend, but if you bring one, it must have had a well-bird checkup by an avian veterinarian within the past year.

For reservations or more information, call 969-1944, or sign up at the shop.

[Enko_chan]

I'm glad she's found such a wonderful home! She's a beautiful hen. I love the slate colors.

I'm in MA- I lived on the west coast for years, and miss it. I've written down the name of the place, though. Thanks for the info on the food. I may order from them.

[J.P.]

Thanks so much for the info. It sounds wonderful and I am hoping to get up there in the next month or so. It's not far at all. I go to Santa Barbara for lunch so this won't be a problem. I'm so excited. Hopefully, I won't bring home a baby or 3.

[J.P.]

Just a quick update that I went to Menagerie 2 weeks ago. It wasn't the best visit but I can't really blame anyone. I called and asked for the hours and they said they close at 6. I jumped in the car at 2:30p and got there just after 4p. Turns out the birds that are out in the back are put in cages and to bed around 4:30 and are unavailable. I got to see one of the blue and gold macaws for a few minutes. The woman that owns it wasn't the nicest to us and said we need to come before 4p. Since I'm not psychic, I didn't know that!

We did visit with the birds in the store that are boarding and the birds they had for sale. The last baby lovebird had been sold days before and they didn't have any babies to see - which is probably a good thing for me.

I plan on going back again in the next month or so and will make sure to get there earlier in the day to see the birds in the back. I think it's great she takes in so many unwanted birds and cares for them.

How's your new baby doing?