BarbieH
05-21-2005, 08:28 PM
Maybe I've really been brainwashed by these birds, but lately I find myself asking, "What's wrong with a little biting?" I don't mean bites that break the skin, but those little nips that can occur throughout the day, that don't leave any marks.
Are we expecting more from our birds than is possible by trying to stop biting completely? Do we expect more from them than we do our dogs and cats? My darling cat has drawn blood in play, and I seem to take that in stride. I know when I have instigated the response.
Are we trying to stop a means of communication that is natural to them? How realistic is that expectation? Do we set ourselves up for failure with that expectation?
Barb
No bird is hopeless;
Sometimes people are.
sdgilley (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=sdgilley)
Interesting thought Barb,
Peepo bites three ways. He bites hard to express his upset for me moving him from some place he's intent upon being. He nips firmly to tell me to "take me over there", or that he's hungry or bored. At night he nibbles on my fingers fairly gently. I think he's just playing with me and working off the last of his energy.
It's not my expectation to stop him from biting me completely, as he is communicating with me. However, I work on "no bite" when he gets too nippy. Mostly, I try to be sensitive to what he might need/want. He's adapted to what I will "take" and what I won't (smart little devil).
Suzanne
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Barb, even my NON biter, Oliver, does those gentle little bites and I think they are the sweetest things and an expression of what he really is.....a parrot. I'm sure it would be tough to have the hard bites but I do think it's a natural thing and they are just "doing what comes naturally" and bitting is one of the best ways to tell us that what we're doing does NOT suit them at the time! file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
I'm sure the day will come when I will have a birdy that bites....HARD and I do agree with you, it's just nuts for "us" to think we can change that when it's so apart of their nature and we've removed them from their natural habitat.
Having said that......the first time the blood flows from my fingers, you guys are gonna hear me CRYIN' LIKE A BABY!file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
Janie (Momma to a YELLER birdy)
TGerard (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=tgerard) file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image008.gif
I would have to agree with what Barb has said. (Naturally.) I confess that I still am skittish when it comes to Sammy's play bites. This may be because of my past experiences with a true finger biter: Gracie. Of course, it may simply be because I am a sissy. (I don't like pain; it hurts.) file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif
Feeling afraid when some animal is trying to bite you is an emotional reaction that is deeply ingrained in our psyche. This is part of our "primitive" or "reactive" mind. In the past, it has served us in our survival as a species well yet, we need to apply our "modern" or "rational" mind to determine the extent of the real threat. A game of logic versus emotion is at play here.
Trying to be rational about bites is and will be a tough boat to row for me. (No one said it would be easy!)
Melanie Daniels: Just what is it you're looking for, sir?
Mitch Brenner: Lovebirds.
Melanie Daniels: Lovebirds, sir?
Mitch Brenner: Yes. I understand there are different varieties. Is that true?
Melanie Daniels: Oh yes, there are.
Mitch Brenner: Well, uh, these are for my sister, for her birthday, see, and uh, as she's only gonna be eleven, I, I wouldn't want a pair of birds that were... too demonstrative.
Melanie Daniels: I understand completely.
Mitch Brenner: At the same time, I wouldn't want them to be too aloof, either.
Melanie Daniels: No, of course not.
Mitch Brenner: Do you happen to have a pair of birds that are... just friendly?
~1963 The Birds
sdgilley (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=sdgilley)
My vet is teaching a new vet the ropes (He's OLD, so I think he's hoping to replace himself). One day I heard him tell her: "if the bird bites you, it's your fault, that is their nature". When he retires, I'm sure going to miss him!
I think if your attitude is one that accepts the bird's (or any animal's) nature, you'll be happier. I think too often (going with the philosophical flow, Barb) people want animals to conform to our needs and our lives, instead of including them as they are. The fact that they will try to adapt is exciting.
Janie, You'll always find a sympathetic ear here for that BITE that draws blood! file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image012.gif
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image013.gifSuzanne
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Suzanne, I'm sure you all will be laughing your heads off and telling me "it's about time that I got mine!" file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
Janie (Momma to a YELLER birdy)
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Hey,
I keep expecting a bite that will draw blood, but as of yet, have not got one. I guess since I am expecting the worse, the little nips they give ain't nothinfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
Lori
I have found the paradox, that if you love until it hurts,there can be no more hurt, only more love. Mother Teresa
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My own thoughts about my parrots (all of them) are to accept them for what/who they are and avoid that which I know I can't change. To be honest, my worst bite from a bird was inflicted by a Moluccan Cockatoo but I'm more afraid of a bite from a large dog.
Linda L.
Disappointment: Trying but not succeeding
Failure: Not trying at all
laurao222 (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=laurao222)
I never expect any of my birds never to bite me and I am often getting bit for one reason or another. I don't consider most of the bites as bites, but as forms of communication and they rarely break the skin. More times than not, it's my fault I'm getting bit. We do have a real biter in Squeaker. He's not a mean bird, it's just he only has one biting pressure: LOCK JAW and blood is a given whether he's asking for a treat or wanting to play. Either way, I'm always nervous when he's around.
Buttercup is completely insane and has not grown out of her biteyness, but she doesn't just bite my husband and I, she will also run after and bite the other birds if she's in one of her moodsfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image021.gif .
Laura O
Pippys Mom (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=pippysmom)
None of my lovebirds bite in a vicious manner on a regular basis...Sunny went through a little thing when her babies hatched and she bit me, I reacted...so then she tried to bite everytime I stuck my hand in there...I didn't react when she bit me, just toughed it out...and she got over it in a couple of weeks. Now she's sitting on those 5 eggs and I put my hand in there and even lift her off them to pick her up and she doesn't bite....if she does anything it's that little nibble they do that feels like they're 'tasting' you...I think that's a sign of affection. Now...ahem..Freddy, the tiel is a whole different story! He can put some pretty good poke holes in a hand...and real fast, too!
Rita
~ Help our words to be tender today...for tomorrow we may have to eat them. ~
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Rita;
How are you dealing with Freddy? When Gracie first got here she was a Monster with a capital M, but over time she trained me ... or I got her out of the habit of biting ... maybe a little of both. file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image025.gifMostly she trained me how not to get bit, and when I learned, she seemed to concentrate less on doing it.
Barb
No bird is hopeless;
Sometimes people are.
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Rita,
You are very lucky that Sunny doesn't bite you when you put your hand in HER nestbox! That's a real show of trust, as you are going near the one thing that she will protect with her very life, if need be. Sunny may be a lovebird but she's just like any other parent when she's raising young. Not to bite to chase you away is actually going against her natural instincts.
Linda L.
Disappointment: Trying but not succeeding
Failure: Not trying at all
Pippys Mom (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=pippysmom)
How do I deal with Freddy? Well, I clinch my teeth and I pick him up and hope he lets go soon......lol file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gifI have a few poke holes but he is getting much better....I think it's something he'll get used to ...once I settle him down a bit he acts like he really enjoys being held and loved like the lovebirds. My son was here this afternoon and he wanted to catch him....he took a towel and gently laid it over him and picked him right up....of course he didn't want to hold him after I got him out of the towel!file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif I think I"ll try that method of catching him...it seemed less stressful on Fred. He spends most of the day on the ladder or the top of the cage or the cabinets...and even though I trimmed his wings I didn't get enough because he can still fly pretty good. After my son caught him I gave him to my little daughter in law and she laid on the couch and held him for a long time petting him...she even let go of him after awhile and he stayed there for a few minutes before flying away. I think he's partial to females.
As for Sunny, I realize what a great thing it is that she trusts me enough to pick her off her nest...I also give her new shredded paper...and like someone else said about their bird today...she really seems to like that I 'help her out' that way...and gets busy twirling and tucking them in her nest.
Rita
~ Help our words to be tender today...for tomorrow we may have to eat them. ~
laurao222 (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=laurao222)
Rita: I feel the same about Babygirl letting me be a part of her nesting and baby raising. I was thinking during this last clutch about how much I respect her as a mother and friend. I am curious to know if Sunny lets your husband get near her nest, because Babygirl wants my husband nowhere near the nestbox and has gone into serious attack mode the only time he ever went near the box eek.
Laura O.
linda040899 (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=linda040899)
Rita,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Freddy is a rescue, is he not? Birds have absolutely amazing memories and that includes birds of all sizes, right down to the smallest finch. Perhaps you need to change your method of picking him up from a hand to a perch. If Freddy was abused/hurt by a man and a hand was the method of delivery, does the behavior make sense? Ginger, my CAG, is an imported bird and she does not like to be handled. She will interact with you all day long, but will growl like a wild caught Grey if you touch her. I suspect it has something to do with her memories of what happened to her during the import process. As a result, I love to interact with her but don't handle her any more than necessary. Needless to say, wing clipping is a major ordeal with her......
Linda L.
Disappointment: Trying but not succeeding
Failure: Not trying at all
Pippys Mom (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=pippysmom)
Actually, Linda...I have wondered if he was abused.....because he doesn't like hands...but he hates a wooden dowel worse. He'll let you just raise a towel and lay it over him....and once you pick him up he's fine. No bites at all. He almost acts like he LIKES being held in the towel even. IT's a strange thing but I have also wondered if he was handfed as a baby...because he wants to either consistently preen your nails and hand while you're holding him or he will shred whatever food you give him while holding in a quick quick way. I've wondered if the way I hold him reminds him of being handfed. He is a strange little bird, but he sure loves being held and cuddled...just doesn't like to be caught with hands or approached with a dowel. He had gotten better about me picking him up with my hands, even...and hadn't been REALLY biting me...just kind of nipping. I don't think he's vicious at all...he doesn't bite unless you scare him. Sooo, so far the towel has been almost a pleasant way to catch him. NO BITES AT ALL. lolfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
Rita
~ Help our words to be tender today...for tomorrow we may have to eat them. ~
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Rita,
Have you tried offering your arm or wrist rather than your hand? He may very well associate hands with abuse and you may never know how close to the truth that thought might be. He obviously likes the attention and it's a good thing you've not withdrawn what he seems to want/need so badly.
Linda L.
Disappointment: Trying but not succeeding
Failure: Not trying at all
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I can say that George, our first and most beloved lovie will not step onto a finger at all, but will step on your wrist, hand or almost anything else you offer. Might be worth a try with Freddy Boy. Once he's on you, he'll nibble fingers and sit right in your hand...no fear. Odd that seems, but it's the whole trust thing with him, he knows he's allowed to do whatever he wants from there...maybe offer Freddy a treat he never gets unless he comes out of the cage onto you and he will remember it.
MJ
Edited by: mjm8321 (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=mjm8321) file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image030.gifat: 12/6/04 12:18 am
Pippys Mom (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=pippysmom)
I will certainly give that a try, MJ and Linda......but I do suspect as soon as I raise the arm like I'm going to 'do something' he will fly away. It's almost comical because he flys to wherever he's going and then whips around, looks at you...(ever notice how they seem to shrink it size when they get a little frightened? Wish I could suck MY gut in that far!file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif ) Anyway, he whips around, eyes real big and top knot straight in the air and shreiks really quick 3 times....it's his alarm sound! Quite funny, really.file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif But, I will try that...once I get him caught with the towel he will just preen my fingers...no biting at all.....so maybe if I could get him to get on the arm as you say....that would be progress. Worth a try anyway. Thanks!
Rita
~ Help our words to be tender today...for tomorrow we may have to eat them. ~
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Hey Rita,
One more thought. When I first started trying to get Lacey to come out, she also did not care too much for hands, so I offered her my hand/arm. What I did was wear a long sleeved shirt, and pulled it over my hand, so no hand was exposed. I guess, "No hand, No foul"file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif .
Lori
I have found the paradox, that if you love until it hurts,there can be no more hurt, only more love. Mother Teresa
Pippys Mom (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=pippysmom)
Lori...that is an excellent idea, Thanks! I never thought of hiding my hand in a long sleeve and trying to coax him on. So far I haven't been able to get him to sit on my hand even after holding him for awhile....that just might do the trick. Great idea, thanks! I'll still beware, though...because I'm sure he can still give a nasty bite through the cloth...hubby took a nasty hit one time when I told him to put socks on his hand and try to catch him! (not one of my better brilliant ideas file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gifbut, hey....it wasn't my hand that was in the fire! file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif)
I just wanted to say that I know that covering my hand in the sleeve is to hide that hand from him...not to protect my hand!file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
I'm getting pretty used to being bitten, but man...those pointy little cockatiel beaks can reallllly leave a mark. I was in a petstore one day and the guy that worked in the bird dept. told me that lovebirds bite harder than cockatiels...this is when I was just 'browsing' and 'thinking about' buying a bird. Now that I have experienced a bite from each I tend to disagree with him....I think Freddys bite is much worse...file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
My son and daughter in law were trying to catch Freddy yesterday....and my son had the towel in his hand...Freddy just stood there waiting for him to drop the towel over him...even put his beak over the top of the outstretched towel, as if to say, 'hey, you gonna pick me up or what???' My son hasn't been bitten by him yet but he's seen him draw blood on me so he's a bit scared of him...ok, so he waited too long to put the towel over him and the bird flew to the kitchen where my daughter in law was...(who hadn't experience the bite yet, either) and she put her hands up to catch him...he landed on her, but then squirmed out of her hand and she grabbed his tail....not a smart move, at all...and I wasn't real happy that she DID that to him...but he paid her back....grabbing the tail scared him and he latched on good...and wouldn't let go because she kept moving...I have discovered if you just hold still and take your medicine with him he will let go much sooner....well, I reached in and tried to help her when she was yelling, 'owwwwwww' and, of course he bit me, too....poor thing...that scared the crap out of him...my son came over and I said, 'put the towel over him, quick!' And as soon as the towel was over him he instantly settled down....I had him all cuddled in the towel...both index fingers bleeding yet again....and I held him for a long long time...They learned the hard way not to scare him....and here is me again, strutting around saying, 'whose da man...whose da man'file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif ...so far I hold the record for most hits taken without giving up! I think I told you guys that I have discovered he is really not vicious...he will try to get away, but if you scare him he bites and hard. I'm willing to take a few bites to get him tame...I could tell yesterday that he knew it was 'me' when I put my hand in to help Britanie, but by that time he was sooo scared that he bit me, too.....Yowwwwwwww!file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image012.gif
Rita
~ Help our words to be tender today...for tomorrow we may have to eat them. ~
Are we expecting more from our birds than is possible by trying to stop biting completely? Do we expect more from them than we do our dogs and cats? My darling cat has drawn blood in play, and I seem to take that in stride. I know when I have instigated the response.
Are we trying to stop a means of communication that is natural to them? How realistic is that expectation? Do we set ourselves up for failure with that expectation?
Barb
No bird is hopeless;
Sometimes people are.
sdgilley (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=sdgilley)
Interesting thought Barb,
Peepo bites three ways. He bites hard to express his upset for me moving him from some place he's intent upon being. He nips firmly to tell me to "take me over there", or that he's hungry or bored. At night he nibbles on my fingers fairly gently. I think he's just playing with me and working off the last of his energy.
It's not my expectation to stop him from biting me completely, as he is communicating with me. However, I work on "no bite" when he gets too nippy. Mostly, I try to be sensitive to what he might need/want. He's adapted to what I will "take" and what I won't (smart little devil).
Suzanne
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Barb, even my NON biter, Oliver, does those gentle little bites and I think they are the sweetest things and an expression of what he really is.....a parrot. I'm sure it would be tough to have the hard bites but I do think it's a natural thing and they are just "doing what comes naturally" and bitting is one of the best ways to tell us that what we're doing does NOT suit them at the time! file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
I'm sure the day will come when I will have a birdy that bites....HARD and I do agree with you, it's just nuts for "us" to think we can change that when it's so apart of their nature and we've removed them from their natural habitat.
Having said that......the first time the blood flows from my fingers, you guys are gonna hear me CRYIN' LIKE A BABY!file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
Janie (Momma to a YELLER birdy)
TGerard (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=tgerard) file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image008.gif
I would have to agree with what Barb has said. (Naturally.) I confess that I still am skittish when it comes to Sammy's play bites. This may be because of my past experiences with a true finger biter: Gracie. Of course, it may simply be because I am a sissy. (I don't like pain; it hurts.) file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif
Feeling afraid when some animal is trying to bite you is an emotional reaction that is deeply ingrained in our psyche. This is part of our "primitive" or "reactive" mind. In the past, it has served us in our survival as a species well yet, we need to apply our "modern" or "rational" mind to determine the extent of the real threat. A game of logic versus emotion is at play here.
Trying to be rational about bites is and will be a tough boat to row for me. (No one said it would be easy!)
Melanie Daniels: Just what is it you're looking for, sir?
Mitch Brenner: Lovebirds.
Melanie Daniels: Lovebirds, sir?
Mitch Brenner: Yes. I understand there are different varieties. Is that true?
Melanie Daniels: Oh yes, there are.
Mitch Brenner: Well, uh, these are for my sister, for her birthday, see, and uh, as she's only gonna be eleven, I, I wouldn't want a pair of birds that were... too demonstrative.
Melanie Daniels: I understand completely.
Mitch Brenner: At the same time, I wouldn't want them to be too aloof, either.
Melanie Daniels: No, of course not.
Mitch Brenner: Do you happen to have a pair of birds that are... just friendly?
~1963 The Birds
sdgilley (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=sdgilley)
My vet is teaching a new vet the ropes (He's OLD, so I think he's hoping to replace himself). One day I heard him tell her: "if the bird bites you, it's your fault, that is their nature". When he retires, I'm sure going to miss him!
I think if your attitude is one that accepts the bird's (or any animal's) nature, you'll be happier. I think too often (going with the philosophical flow, Barb) people want animals to conform to our needs and our lives, instead of including them as they are. The fact that they will try to adapt is exciting.
Janie, You'll always find a sympathetic ear here for that BITE that draws blood! file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image012.gif
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image013.gifSuzanne
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Suzanne, I'm sure you all will be laughing your heads off and telling me "it's about time that I got mine!" file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
Janie (Momma to a YELLER birdy)
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Hey,
I keep expecting a bite that will draw blood, but as of yet, have not got one. I guess since I am expecting the worse, the little nips they give ain't nothinfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
Lori
I have found the paradox, that if you love until it hurts,there can be no more hurt, only more love. Mother Teresa
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My own thoughts about my parrots (all of them) are to accept them for what/who they are and avoid that which I know I can't change. To be honest, my worst bite from a bird was inflicted by a Moluccan Cockatoo but I'm more afraid of a bite from a large dog.
Linda L.
Disappointment: Trying but not succeeding
Failure: Not trying at all
laurao222 (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=laurao222)
I never expect any of my birds never to bite me and I am often getting bit for one reason or another. I don't consider most of the bites as bites, but as forms of communication and they rarely break the skin. More times than not, it's my fault I'm getting bit. We do have a real biter in Squeaker. He's not a mean bird, it's just he only has one biting pressure: LOCK JAW and blood is a given whether he's asking for a treat or wanting to play. Either way, I'm always nervous when he's around.
Buttercup is completely insane and has not grown out of her biteyness, but she doesn't just bite my husband and I, she will also run after and bite the other birds if she's in one of her moodsfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image021.gif .
Laura O
Pippys Mom (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=pippysmom)
None of my lovebirds bite in a vicious manner on a regular basis...Sunny went through a little thing when her babies hatched and she bit me, I reacted...so then she tried to bite everytime I stuck my hand in there...I didn't react when she bit me, just toughed it out...and she got over it in a couple of weeks. Now she's sitting on those 5 eggs and I put my hand in there and even lift her off them to pick her up and she doesn't bite....if she does anything it's that little nibble they do that feels like they're 'tasting' you...I think that's a sign of affection. Now...ahem..Freddy, the tiel is a whole different story! He can put some pretty good poke holes in a hand...and real fast, too!
Rita
~ Help our words to be tender today...for tomorrow we may have to eat them. ~
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Rita;
How are you dealing with Freddy? When Gracie first got here she was a Monster with a capital M, but over time she trained me ... or I got her out of the habit of biting ... maybe a little of both. file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image025.gifMostly she trained me how not to get bit, and when I learned, she seemed to concentrate less on doing it.
Barb
No bird is hopeless;
Sometimes people are.
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Rita,
You are very lucky that Sunny doesn't bite you when you put your hand in HER nestbox! That's a real show of trust, as you are going near the one thing that she will protect with her very life, if need be. Sunny may be a lovebird but she's just like any other parent when she's raising young. Not to bite to chase you away is actually going against her natural instincts.
Linda L.
Disappointment: Trying but not succeeding
Failure: Not trying at all
Pippys Mom (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=pippysmom)
How do I deal with Freddy? Well, I clinch my teeth and I pick him up and hope he lets go soon......lol file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gifI have a few poke holes but he is getting much better....I think it's something he'll get used to ...once I settle him down a bit he acts like he really enjoys being held and loved like the lovebirds. My son was here this afternoon and he wanted to catch him....he took a towel and gently laid it over him and picked him right up....of course he didn't want to hold him after I got him out of the towel!file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif I think I"ll try that method of catching him...it seemed less stressful on Fred. He spends most of the day on the ladder or the top of the cage or the cabinets...and even though I trimmed his wings I didn't get enough because he can still fly pretty good. After my son caught him I gave him to my little daughter in law and she laid on the couch and held him for a long time petting him...she even let go of him after awhile and he stayed there for a few minutes before flying away. I think he's partial to females.
As for Sunny, I realize what a great thing it is that she trusts me enough to pick her off her nest...I also give her new shredded paper...and like someone else said about their bird today...she really seems to like that I 'help her out' that way...and gets busy twirling and tucking them in her nest.
Rita
~ Help our words to be tender today...for tomorrow we may have to eat them. ~
laurao222 (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=laurao222)
Rita: I feel the same about Babygirl letting me be a part of her nesting and baby raising. I was thinking during this last clutch about how much I respect her as a mother and friend. I am curious to know if Sunny lets your husband get near her nest, because Babygirl wants my husband nowhere near the nestbox and has gone into serious attack mode the only time he ever went near the box eek.
Laura O.
linda040899 (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=linda040899)
Rita,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Freddy is a rescue, is he not? Birds have absolutely amazing memories and that includes birds of all sizes, right down to the smallest finch. Perhaps you need to change your method of picking him up from a hand to a perch. If Freddy was abused/hurt by a man and a hand was the method of delivery, does the behavior make sense? Ginger, my CAG, is an imported bird and she does not like to be handled. She will interact with you all day long, but will growl like a wild caught Grey if you touch her. I suspect it has something to do with her memories of what happened to her during the import process. As a result, I love to interact with her but don't handle her any more than necessary. Needless to say, wing clipping is a major ordeal with her......
Linda L.
Disappointment: Trying but not succeeding
Failure: Not trying at all
Pippys Mom (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=pippysmom)
Actually, Linda...I have wondered if he was abused.....because he doesn't like hands...but he hates a wooden dowel worse. He'll let you just raise a towel and lay it over him....and once you pick him up he's fine. No bites at all. He almost acts like he LIKES being held in the towel even. IT's a strange thing but I have also wondered if he was handfed as a baby...because he wants to either consistently preen your nails and hand while you're holding him or he will shred whatever food you give him while holding in a quick quick way. I've wondered if the way I hold him reminds him of being handfed. He is a strange little bird, but he sure loves being held and cuddled...just doesn't like to be caught with hands or approached with a dowel. He had gotten better about me picking him up with my hands, even...and hadn't been REALLY biting me...just kind of nipping. I don't think he's vicious at all...he doesn't bite unless you scare him. Sooo, so far the towel has been almost a pleasant way to catch him. NO BITES AT ALL. lolfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
Rita
~ Help our words to be tender today...for tomorrow we may have to eat them. ~
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Rita,
Have you tried offering your arm or wrist rather than your hand? He may very well associate hands with abuse and you may never know how close to the truth that thought might be. He obviously likes the attention and it's a good thing you've not withdrawn what he seems to want/need so badly.
Linda L.
Disappointment: Trying but not succeeding
Failure: Not trying at all
mjm8321 (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=mjm8321) file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image028.gif
I can say that George, our first and most beloved lovie will not step onto a finger at all, but will step on your wrist, hand or almost anything else you offer. Might be worth a try with Freddy Boy. Once he's on you, he'll nibble fingers and sit right in your hand...no fear. Odd that seems, but it's the whole trust thing with him, he knows he's allowed to do whatever he wants from there...maybe offer Freddy a treat he never gets unless he comes out of the cage onto you and he will remember it.
MJ
Edited by: mjm8321 (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=mjm8321) file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image030.gifat: 12/6/04 12:18 am
Pippys Mom (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=pippysmom)
I will certainly give that a try, MJ and Linda......but I do suspect as soon as I raise the arm like I'm going to 'do something' he will fly away. It's almost comical because he flys to wherever he's going and then whips around, looks at you...(ever notice how they seem to shrink it size when they get a little frightened? Wish I could suck MY gut in that far!file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif ) Anyway, he whips around, eyes real big and top knot straight in the air and shreiks really quick 3 times....it's his alarm sound! Quite funny, really.file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif But, I will try that...once I get him caught with the towel he will just preen my fingers...no biting at all.....so maybe if I could get him to get on the arm as you say....that would be progress. Worth a try anyway. Thanks!
Rita
~ Help our words to be tender today...for tomorrow we may have to eat them. ~
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Hey Rita,
One more thought. When I first started trying to get Lacey to come out, she also did not care too much for hands, so I offered her my hand/arm. What I did was wear a long sleeved shirt, and pulled it over my hand, so no hand was exposed. I guess, "No hand, No foul"file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif .
Lori
I have found the paradox, that if you love until it hurts,there can be no more hurt, only more love. Mother Teresa
Pippys Mom (http://p079.ezboard.com/blovebirdsplusaviarydiscussionboard.showUserPublic Profile?gid=pippysmom)
Lori...that is an excellent idea, Thanks! I never thought of hiding my hand in a long sleeve and trying to coax him on. So far I haven't been able to get him to sit on my hand even after holding him for awhile....that just might do the trick. Great idea, thanks! I'll still beware, though...because I'm sure he can still give a nasty bite through the cloth...hubby took a nasty hit one time when I told him to put socks on his hand and try to catch him! (not one of my better brilliant ideas file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gifbut, hey....it wasn't my hand that was in the fire! file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif)
I just wanted to say that I know that covering my hand in the sleeve is to hide that hand from him...not to protect my hand!file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
I'm getting pretty used to being bitten, but man...those pointy little cockatiel beaks can reallllly leave a mark. I was in a petstore one day and the guy that worked in the bird dept. told me that lovebirds bite harder than cockatiels...this is when I was just 'browsing' and 'thinking about' buying a bird. Now that I have experienced a bite from each I tend to disagree with him....I think Freddys bite is much worse...file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif
My son and daughter in law were trying to catch Freddy yesterday....and my son had the towel in his hand...Freddy just stood there waiting for him to drop the towel over him...even put his beak over the top of the outstretched towel, as if to say, 'hey, you gonna pick me up or what???' My son hasn't been bitten by him yet but he's seen him draw blood on me so he's a bit scared of him...ok, so he waited too long to put the towel over him and the bird flew to the kitchen where my daughter in law was...(who hadn't experience the bite yet, either) and she put her hands up to catch him...he landed on her, but then squirmed out of her hand and she grabbed his tail....not a smart move, at all...and I wasn't real happy that she DID that to him...but he paid her back....grabbing the tail scared him and he latched on good...and wouldn't let go because she kept moving...I have discovered if you just hold still and take your medicine with him he will let go much sooner....well, I reached in and tried to help her when she was yelling, 'owwwwwww' and, of course he bit me, too....poor thing...that scared the crap out of him...my son came over and I said, 'put the towel over him, quick!' And as soon as the towel was over him he instantly settled down....I had him all cuddled in the towel...both index fingers bleeding yet again....and I held him for a long long time...They learned the hard way not to scare him....and here is me again, strutting around saying, 'whose da man...whose da man'file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image007.gif ...so far I hold the record for most hits taken without giving up! I think I told you guys that I have discovered he is really not vicious...he will try to get away, but if you scare him he bites and hard. I'm willing to take a few bites to get him tame...I could tell yesterday that he knew it was 'me' when I put my hand in to help Britanie, but by that time he was sooo scared that he bit me, too.....Yowwwwwwww!file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/LOCALU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image012.gif
Rita
~ Help our words to be tender today...for tomorrow we may have to eat them. ~