putting up with it?

[travis]

I was recently at the shop for more seed and a few new toys, where I overheard one of the clerks say to another customer, "To me, it's no different than any other animal; it's how they are raised. I wouldn't put up with a biting dog, and I don't put up with biting birds." I didn't want to interrupt and ask what works for him, but it got me thinking... what is different about birds psychology than other 'domestic' animals? Obviously I think a lot varies on the personality of the bird, let alone the intelligence factor, but from what I've gathered, birds seem to be unique in that they can't be disciplined in the same way as other animals. Maybe it's just one person's interpretation of nature versus nurture, but from my small and limited observations, more people seem willing to accept being biten by birds than they would by a dog or another animal. I'd love any enlightenment on the subject :)

On a lighter note, I suffered my first big bite. I went to this amazing bird place, the best yet, called Freeflight, where for $5 you have direct access to 40 or so large exotics that are out in a big bird sanctuary (I'll have pics soon, words don't do it justice). Anyway, I was duped by a military macaw. From the get go I was warned that he didn't like males, but after playing with a nearby cockatoo, he came over to me on his perch and started doing a happy dance, followed by the "I want to perch on your arm please" footraising. I decided to take my chances, and ended up with the beak of doom giving me a gnarly cut with bruise to match on my forearm. But the experience was worth it, because I got good hands on time with a full grown hycinith, and even though he destroyed my bracelet and ruinied a few of the band pins on my jacket, convinced me more so to get one once I have the time and space for such a big beauty.

and ps: archimedes only bites fingers now :eek: he just hates them for some reason, but he loves me and loves to play on my head and in my shirts and sits on my shoulder when I'm in the office :D We'll work on the fingers soon, though :wink:

[Mummieeva]

There are ways to stop some birds from biting. But many do it for many reasons from hormones to bad experience with hands. Unlike other animals say a dog birds are so much smaller and you can not use same methods. Such as when a dog bite tapping their mouth. With birds they will just use it as a second chance(plus a tap same as a dog gets would hurt bird). I have a biter a 2yr old hen named Baggy. She did not bite until her baby was around 3 months old. There are times I can tell she is going to bite and times I have no idea she will. I have had some fustration with her biting but this board helped me alot. There are some people who can not handle a bird who bites and thats how alot of birds get re-homed. I will admit I had a hard time at first but now I can not imagine Baggy not being here.



Steph

[Janie]

Travis, I have three and one, Big Boi, IS a biter and there is not a thing I can do about it. He is, honest to God, the sweetest bird in the world, very similar to my best boy, Oliver, but he bites and that's that. He was hand fed and so was his brother, Shy. While Shy is not nearly as friendly as Big Boi, he does not bite....ever. Yesterday Big Boi was climbing on me while I was cleaning cages and went under the back of my shirt, found a freckle or small mole and immediately took a bite. :eek: He most certainly was not mad at me, just curious about that "thing" he found on my back and wanted to investigate it.....he investigates everything with his beak. Investigate = beak = bite! My arms are a mess! I do a lot of work in my yard and if I get any kind of scratch, even a tiny one, Big Boi finds it in a split second and picks it open! I took him up to my computer room the other night and with in 10 minutes, I was bleeding from THREE places! He did not create the original break in my skin but if he finds a spot where I've had any kind of injury, he goes for it. If he's on me and I'm moving around, he will usually just go along for the ride and sit still, looking around but if I stop, he starts climbing all over me looking for something to sink his beak into. I hate that he does it because it really limits the time he gets to spend on me and I know he adores me and me him. I've held his beak, I've said "no bite" a thousand times and nothing makes a difference. I hate to put him back in his cage for biting because I know he doesn't understand that punishment. So.....I just deal with it!

Anyone who thinks you can train every bird not to bite is full of crap. Same thing with dogs! Our dog was 10 weeks old when we got her, raised in a loving home before we got her. She was and is very shy and although she has never bitten, she will snap at anyone who reaches down to pet her unless they are one of the special few people she loves. Her vet told me 11 years ago to tell people to "leave her alone" and even if they think they are "dog people" and she'll accept them, she won't. I've had dogs all my life and she is the only one that hasn't been friendly to all people. That is just her personality and my vet assured me there was nothing we could do to change that except to tell people to leave her alone.


Such as when a dog bite tapping their mouth. OMG, I have never heard of using that method to stop a dog from biting. That sounds extremely cruel to me and something I would never do.

[LauraO]

It's important to remember that birds are NOT domesticated animals and are only a couple generations removed from the wild. In fact, if I remember correctly it was only in the 1970's that wild caught parrot importation was banned and they become bred in captivity. I firmly believe that all birds bite at one time or another and anytime people make comments to me about not dealing well with beaker bites, I tell them they should NEVER own a bird.

....That Freeflight place sounds too cool!!! Is it in San Diego. If so, where?? I'd love to go next time I'm there:D .

[sdgilley]

You have some guts letting a macaw bite you! :omg: not me! I don't like lovie bites and their quite small compared to a macaw.

I think one problem with people & their expectations of birds is that they are NOT domesticated animals. They are wild animals that live with us. If you've ever known someone who had, for instance, a pet squirrel or skunk, you'd probably be aware that they will bite occassionally. I had a wild rabbit once that I hand raised from 10 days old (orphaned). Once it was fully weaned and went through puberty - it was 100% wild again. I couldn't touch this bunny any sooner than one out back in the yard right now, and I had fed it with a dropper!!

Janie mentioned that her Big Boi explores everything with his beak... :lol yep, good point, what else do they have? They are climbers, so it's natural. If my most tame bird wants to step on my hand but isn't sure I'll stay still, she may bite it first. When she's tired and wants to go "home", she'll give a little bite. These are ways she communicates as well. If I don't hear her first request, she'll bite harder (essentially raising her voice)!

[Mummieeva]

My parents use to tap our dogs on their nose when they would nibble and bite. They did many things I did not belive in when training dogs we had. I have not had a dog since being on own.But I would never do that myself.



Steph

[Phoebe]

:D Some birds are biters and some are not (I have six budgies). Mango doesn't bite but Phoebe sure does, especially with her cage aggression issues so it's up to me to be prepared and I do have to wear a leather glove at times, but I love her the most of of all 10 birds (different species) and deal with her biting best I can, nobody is perfect. And there have been some excellent explanations earlier in the post as to explaining why they are still wild animals.

[LauraO]

You have some guts letting a macaw bite you! :omg: .

That's true birdy initiation:eek:

[peppero1]

I think that birds cannot be trained to not use their beak, but they can be trained to use their beaks gently. My lovebird used to bite and nibble quite hard but after using the earthquake technique and the 'evil-eye' he nibbles quite softly and only bites when he wants to get my attention for me to take him to his cage.
In fact he is surpringly passive, considering the way that I manhandle him sometimes.

One question I would like to raise however is if one can identify a "biter" in advance of purchase. The reason I ask is that I am considering getting an Eclectus and want to minimize my chances of being disappointed.. I would hate to get a bird that size that bites. Ouch!

[Kumashe]

I was recently at the shop for more seed and a few new toys, where I overheard one of the clerks say to another customer, "To me, it's no different than any other animal; it's how they are raised. I wouldn't put up with a biting dog, and I don't put up with biting birds."

Now I haven't been bitten by Indy yet, but when that does happen (because I know it will) I will just have to learn to tolerate it. Birds have a completely different mind set compared to Fido or FiFi. Dogs and cats (not birds) have been domesticated for centuries so, of course, most people aren't going to be very tolerant of a dog or cat bite. But still, there is no such thing as a completely tamed animal whether it is a dog, cat, bird, etc. Even humans revert to their wild sides every now and then... Isn't that proof enough?

[travis]

I think them being small and wild may have a lot to do with it, let alone the individual factor. Archimedes' little bites are hardly a huge problem, and I have heard a generalized rule that the bigger the bird the less likely it'll bite you...but I have little if no experience with this. It does seem, though, that larger parrots are defintley more trainable, and that may be what he was referring to, in harsher words. Maybe he'll be the one to work with their pair of hyciniths...I found out they received them since no one would take them in, since after being bonded to each other, they became...very defensive and actually took their former owner's finger off :( :(

I just realized the biggest overall example would even be our little 'domestic' friend the cat. Anyone who's ever owned a cat, like a bird, has probably gotten whomped at one point or another. The behavior across felines is pretty uniform, which explains incidents like sigfried and roy's bad day, where the tiger wasn't trying to really go for a kill, but more of a "leave me alone" defensive whomping, like when 'Fluffy" gets your nose for getting too close.

As for the macaw, I never intended for him to bite...he just turned out to be a lot faster than my retreating arm :)

Laura, Freeflight is in Del Mar, right by the horsetrack. It belongs to a vet, and his office is right next door. It really is a great place, but unfortunatley there's no website, so if you do go, make sure to call ahead to see if the birds are out.