Avian vet told me a strange taming technique (+ unrelated question)

[BlueBull]

Hi everyone

I'm new here. Thank you for letting me join. This post has turned out longer than I had expected, sorry, I tend to over-explain

I want to preface this by saying that I will not be using this taming technique, I'm just wondering if anyone has ever heard of this before

I have been keeping budgerigars from a very young age so I am a bit experienced with at least that species. I have always used "traditional" taming techniques, like finding out their comfort distance and veeery slowly decreasing that distance until they are comfortable with being close to me, then introducing a hand, using treats to reward calmness, etc etc

That said, we (my girlfriend and me) decided to go with a bit bigger of a bird since my previous budgie died very unexpected a few months ago, which I still have a hard time with. Though he was very familiar with the windows and it never happened before I suspect he flew into one We have indoor windows but we have now put stickers all over them to avoid that happening again. So, we went and got a lovebird a few days ago. He or she is still young, should be 9-10 weeks now. I will be using the methods described before, however today I went to the avian vet (not just a vet that also handles birds, a true avian vet) to have the bird checked over (everything okay) and the vet told me he has been keeping lovebirds all his life and he tames them using a very peculiar method and he tells me this works in about a single week to completely tame them. It's simple: he catches them and hold them in his hands, puts them against his bare stomach while watching TV and after a while they would relax and fall asleep. After 1 or 2 days and the more relaxed the bird is, the looser he would keep his hands and after a while, at most a day or 4, they just sit in his hands and fear of his hands is gone and the bird is as tame as can be. Again, I'm not going to use this technique but I'm wondering if this would work at all? I would think that would make them extremely fearful of your hands in stead of tame? I told him this but he says it never fails and all his birds over the years have loved him to bits after taming them like this, he was really adamant about this

Thoughts?

Unrelated question: what are your thoughts about clipping the birds wings, during bonding only? I have never done this but on the other hand, I hand-fed all my previous birds from about 4 weeks old so they bonded with me from the start. This bird is extremely fearful (which is of course normal), 9-10 weeks old and not hand-fed and I'm wondering if I should clip its wings a bit to facilitate forming a bond with it. I'm afraid that I won't be able to bond with it and comfort it properly because I have almost no experience starting the bonding process with a fearful bird, I'm scared to make mistakes and break trust. And also, I don't want my little friend to get hurt if he flees when afraid, though we have tried to make sure there are no windows (drapes closed + stickers as explained before) or dangerous objects he can fly into

Thank you!

Tom

[linda040899]

Hello, Tom, and welcome to Lovebirds Plus Community! Congratulations on your new baby lovebird and we are happy to have you here with us!

The technique your avian vet described is called desensitization, and while it will tame the bird, you will not get the trust relationship you truly want. Basically, you force the bird to tolerate something that it doesn't want but has no way to escape. The Womax Brothers are well known for pushing this technique, and I adamantly disagree with it!

This baby has 2 things to deal with. It's away from everything familiar and in a place where it doesn't know that you don't intend to make it your next meal. Remember, birds are prey animals, although there are predator birds (not little parrots). Parrots have to learn trust through experience and experience takes time. How much time is different with each bird. You and I are in agreement about method of taming/earning trust.

I have a combination of small birds (I'm a retired lovebird breeder) and, while I'm not pro wing clipping, I have a few whose flights are clipped strictly for safety purposes. When I clip, I only clip the outside 3-4 flights on each wing so the bird can still fly, just not gain altitude. A conure landing on my macaw's cage would not end well, so both of my conures, have mini clips. Initially, you may want to clip flights until your lovebird learns the layout of its new home. You can try stick training for it to step up onto should it land on the floor. A stick is simply a different perch and will be viewed as safer than your hand. Many parrots simply don't trust or like human hands and we have to respect that.

I don't mind reading a "book." The more information you offer, the better I can understand what's going on. I'm also sorry for the loss of your budgie. A lot of my lovebird flock are much older (15+) and it's hard when you lose them to old age and know there's nothing you can do.

[BlueBull]

Hello Linda

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such an extensive reply, I really appreciate it!

I didn't expect that it would actually work to tame a bird, that kind of surprises me. As you rightly said though, that is absolutely not the bond I want to have with my bird. My previous birds all loved me, at least they all kissed me constantly, completely trusted me and at times even regurgitated food to me which is a sign of affection among many birds as you know. That is the kind of bond I want with this bird as well, I would rather have him wild and unforced than tame and forced into it. That said I think (actually, I'm sure) I just need to have a lot more patience than with my previous birds and it will turn out alright. Today I succeeded in having him not go crazy when I approached the cage with some millet and he actually came up to the perch I was holding the millet at from outside the cage. He didn't eat from it but that is already progress and this is the first time I tried any kind of real interaction with this bird. I'm going to hold off on really starting to tame it for a few more days so it can settle in more but I wanted to see how he would react to millet and my hand

About the clipping, I'm still not sure what I should do but I think I'm going to wait and see how he responds to real interaction before I decide. We have bird-proofed our apartment as much as we can and I believe we can keep him safe even without a wing clip. That said if I see he is at risk from harming himself I might go ahead with it but I will have the vet do it I think. I will also certainly look into stick training, that's new to me

It was hard to lose my previous bird indeed, certainly because he appeared to be in good health still. I loved that little guy. I take a bit of comfort in knowing he got to be 13 years, almost 14 years old, which is already respectable for a budgie in captivity

Thanks again and take care

Tom

[linda040899]

Sounds like your new lovie is curious about you already! This is a very good sign and you simply have to take things at his pace. Pretty basically, he is not bonding to you. He is accepting you into his flock.

I will not trust most pet shops or vet's offices to clip my bird's flight feathers. Most have their own agenda as how it needs to be done and you can find yourself with a parrot that only has the flights on one wing clipped or all feathers have been clipped from flights to glides!!! I do my own wing clipping so that I can control how much flight ability I want the bird to have to navigate safely around the environment. I usually start with 3 and go one more on each wing, if necessary. None of mine have ever held a grudge because of what I've done. It's OK because I didn't hurt them.

Almost 14yrs is amazing for a budgie! Very few make it to 10 and most of those are wild color (green). Anything with feathers captures my heart very easily, including my backyard chickens!

Hope this is helpful and please keep me updated on how things are going with your lovebird!

[BlueBull]

Pretty basically, he is not bonding to you. He is accepting you into his flock

That is a very interesting way of looking at it, I agree from my experience with previous birds

I will not trust most pet shops or vet's offices to clip my bird's flight feathers. Most have their own agenda as how it needs to be done and you can find yourself with a parrot that only has the flights on one wing clipped or all feathers have been clipped from flights to glides!!! I do my own wing clipping so that I can control how much flight ability I want the bird to have to navigate safely around the environment. I usually start with 3 and go one more on each wing, if necessary. None of mine have ever held a grudge because of what I've done. It's OK because I didn't hurt them.

That is funny you should say that, the vet told me that if I were to get his wings clipped, it would only be 1 wing because that is the way it should be done. He said that if you do both that they can fly just as well as without a clip. When I heard this I was already thinking "that is strange, every single piece of information I read about clipping says to clip both wings". I'm starting to get some serious doubts about this "avian vet"

Almost 14yrs is amazing for a budgie! Very few make it to 10 and most of those are wild color (green). Anything with feathers captures my heart very easily, including my backyard chickens!

Indeed, the little guy just kept going. He was even in (apparently) really good health when he died. I heard a thump about 5 minutes before we found him dead but didn't see anything out of the ordinary, so that's why I think he flew into a window and succumbed to the impact

Hope this is helpful and please keep me updated on how things are going with your lovebird!

This entire conversation has been amazingly helpful! Thank you for that. I will certainly keep you posted on progress. I already have an update: yesterday, after hesitating for about 20-25 minutes he slowly came over and with outstretched neck he took a few nibbles of the spray millet I was holding against the cage bars! Today, he only hesitated for 5 minutes before scooting over and didn't stretch out his neck to eat from it, he sat right up to the cage bars at about 15cm from my hand! So, great progress in a pretty short time. I can't wait to bond with him (or better, for him to accept me into his flock) so I can let him out of his cage, I pity him for not being able to fly freely. Or do you let your birds out before they are tame? I'm kind of reluctant to do that although our apartment should be safe, as I have no way of handling him and getting him back in his cage afterwards, and I really don't want to chase and catch him unless I absolutely have to, that would destroy any built-up trust

Cheers

Tom

[linda040899]

You are making wonderful progress by letting him come to you, which he is doing! He sees that you won't hurt him when he gets closer so he's beginning to trust you! Great!!

Clipping the flight feathers on only 1 wing throws off their balance even when they are not flying! You want to limit flight, not eliminate it. With 3-5 primaries cut on each wing, he will still be able to fly, just not gain altitude or speed that he would have with full flights.

I would work on teaching him to step up onto a perch before you let him out of his cage. I have a few that are not tame, but they return to their cage on command or step up so I can take them back.

[BlueBull]

You are making wonderful progress by letting him come to you, which he is doing! He sees that you won't hurt him when he gets closer so he's beginning to trust you! Great!!

Clipping the flight feathers on only 1 wing throws off their balance even when they are not flying! You want to limit flight, not eliminate it. With 3-5 primaries cut on each wing, he will still be able to fly, just not gain altitude or speed that he would have with full flights.

I would work on teaching him to step up onto a perch before you let him out of his cage. I have a few that are not tame, but they return to their cage on command or step up so I can take them back.

Yep, I'm making progress every day, it's going great. He just ate some millet without stem from between my fingers through the cage bars, so with my fingers pressed against the cage. He also came over right away, doesn't hesitate anymore. I'm going to keep this up for a few days and then try to open the cage and hold my hand with some millet still on its stem (to give him some distance again in the new situation) and see how he reacts. With my previous budgie the last step was to hold the millet above my hand so he had to step up on it to get it, that's how I hand tamed all my previous birds, going to try that again with this one. I always leave the choice up to them though as you said.

I'm also trying to start him on pellets by mixing it in with his seed mix (the "breeder" weaned him on seeds) but he isn't touching them, going to read up a bit on how to facilitate this transition. With my previous birds I just taught them to eat pellets right after I weaned them but this one is already used to seeds

I hope I don't have to clip him, I'm going to try to hand tame him inside the cage before I let him out, perhaps with stick training as you suggested. If that takes too long I'll consider clipping him but I'd really rather not, I hate grabbing birds unless it's absolutely necessary

Cheers

Tom

[linda040899]

I hope I don't have to clip him, I'm going to try to hand tame him inside the cage before I let him out, perhaps with stick training as you suggested. If that takes too long I'll consider clipping him but I'd really rather not, I hate grabbing birds unless it's absolutely necessary

I agree completely! Sounds like he's getting more and more comfortable with you so just keep going at his pace.

An all pellet diet for lovebirds (and other parrots native to Africa) is not a good thing. Lovebirds need a diet higher in fat content than non-African species. Pellets are low fat, plus they are made from seed. My own avian vet recommends no more than 20% pellets for ANY small bird because pellets actually contain too much nutrition for their systems to handle. If you can find Lafeber's Nutriberries, they contain some pellets. All of my flock love them so I have to make sure my bag is never empty!!

[BlueBull]

I agree completely! Sounds like he's getting more and more comfortable with you so just keep going at his pace.

An all pellet diet for lovebirds (and other parrots native to Africa) is not a good thing. Lovebirds need a diet higher in fat content than non-African species. Pellets are low fat, plus they are made from seed. My own avian vet recommends no more than 20% pellets for ANY small bird because pellets actually contain too much nutrition for their systems to handle. If you can find Lafeber's Nutriberries, they contain some pellets. All of my flock love them so I have to make sure my bag is never empty!!

That is a funny coincidence, I just bought some nutriberries yesterday to try out, the tropical fruit variety or something like that. So far he hasn't touched them but next I'm going to try breaking them up in smaller crumbles to see if he takes to that more easily. I indeed read everywhere that most birds take to the nutriberries really well. I didn't know that about pellets though, interesting, I read about them years back and concluded that because there are so many websites advocating them they must be good. Guess you learn something new every day, thanks for the info

Cheers

Tom

[linda040899]

Some lovebirds prefer the Nutriberries broken up (mine do), while others enjoy the whole "berry." I've tried all the different flavors and the favorite comes out as El Paso, but I change varieties to give them different tastes. I have an older Double Yellow Headed Amazon who used to love seed but seed put on weight, which is not good for an Amazon. So, I give him a little bit of seed, a bowl full of Nutriberries and different nuts each day. He just went in for his annual exam and he's lost a healthy 50 grams in a year! My vet is very happy!